Presbyters Uniwersytet Warszawski
ID
ER 966
Orosius takes part in the assembly presided over by Bishop John of Jerusalem in AD 415, in which the orthodoxy of Pelagius is discussed. He mentions the presbyters Avitus of Braga (Iberian Peninsula), Passerius and Vitalis as witnesses to the incompetence of an interpreter employed at this meeting. Orosius, Book in Defense against the Pelagians, AD 415.
4. Intromissum Pelagium unanimiter omnes interrogatis, an haec, quibus Augustinus episcopus respondisset, se docuisse cognosceret. ilico ille respondit: "et quis est mihi Augustinus?" cumque uniuersi acclamarent, blasphemantem in episcopum, ex cuius ore Dominus uniuersae Africae unitatis indulserit sanitatem, non solum a conuentu illo uerum ab omni ecclesia pellendum, episcopus Iohannes ilico eum, hominem uidelicet laicum in consessu presbyterorum, reum haereseos manifestae in medio catholicorum sedere praecepit et deinde ait: "Augustinus ego sum," ut scilicet persona quasi praesentis assumpta liberius ex auctoritate eius qui laedebatur ignosceret et dolentium animos temperaret. cui mox a nobis dictum est: "si Augustini personam sumis, Augustini sequere sententiam".
 
Here follows the doctrinal discussion, especially on the teachings of Pelagius that "a person could be without sin and could easily observe God’s commandments if he so wished." Bishop Johns tries to turn the assembly into a formal trial in which he could act as a judge in order to pass a judgment favourable to Pelagius. Orosius opposes this and declares that the doctrine upheld by Pelagius has already been condemned by the bishops (it is an allusion to the condemnation of Caelestius in Carthage in 411). Presbyters cannot contest the decision of their "fathers", i.e. the bishops.
 
6. Ad quod ille diu disputans et nostris propter imperitiam ignoti nobis interpretis - quem saepissime uiri primarii et religiosi Passerio et Auitus presbyteri et Domnus exduce uel praue interpretantem uel plura subprimentem uel alia ex aliis suggerentem confutauerunt - nostris, ut dixi, actionibus uel interpolatis plerumque uel tacitis, episcopus Iohannes ait: "si sine adiutorio Dei hoc hominem posse diceret, pessimum et damnabile erat; nunc autem cum adiciat, posse hominem esse sine peccato non sine adiutorio Dei, uos quid dicitis? an forte uos Dei adiutorium denegatis?" cui respondi ego: "testibus et testificantibus etiam nunc uobis et supra memoratis uiris anathema ei, qui negat adiutorium Dei. ego certe non nego, praepcipue cum e contrario in haereticos confutarim'. dein cum, intellecto iudice et interprete prodito, clamaremus Latinum esse haereticum, non Latinos, haeresim Latina magis partibus notam Latinis iudicibus disserendam, ac se paene impudenter ad iudicandum - cum quidem nos accusatores non essemus - et unus et suspectus ingereret, dic a pluribus necessarium fuit: "non potest quisquam idem et haereticus esse et aduocatus et iudex". multisque aliis actitatis Iohannes episcopus nouissimam sententiam protulit, confirmans tandem postulationem intentionemque nostram, ut ad beatum Innocentium, papam Romanum, fratres et epistulae mitterentur, uniuersis quod ille decerneret secuturis, se ut haereticus Pelagius imposito sibi eatenus silentio contisceret et ut nostri ab insultatione conuicti Iohannis confessique cessarent. uniuersi in hanc sententiam consensimus; gratiarum actione celebrata, pace facta et consummata ad pacis testimonium oratione discessimus.
 
Forty-seven days later Orosius approaches Bishop John and unexpectedly is accused by him of saying on the assembly described above that "a person can be without sin even with God's assistance." Orosius reproaches John for delivering such a judgment although he did not understand Latin (see [975]).
 
7. [...]  ex una mecum parte consederant Auitus et Vitalis presbyteri, ex alia nescio quis ignotus interpres et deinde probati et saeculo et Deo uiri Passerio presbyter et Domnus exduce: qui ambo ut pro experientia ac fide sua adesse interpretes dignarentur, ipso conueniente episcopo lohanne a corona. uestra conrogati deductique conuenerant. medius quoque uobis ipse fuit, quem in illa tunc circumstantia non minus audisse.
 
(ed. Zangemaister 1882: 607, 610, 612)
4. After Pelagius had been admitted, all of you with one mind asked whether he realized that he taught things against which Bishop Augustine had responded. He answered at once, "And who is Augustine to me?" Even though everyone shouted that he was blaspheming against the bishop from whose mouth the Lord has bestowed the healing medicine of unity to all Africa, and that he ought to be expelled not merely from the present assembly but also from the Church as a whole, Bishop John immediately ordered Pelagius, who was clearly a layman in a gathering of priests and a culprit guilty of flagrant heresy in the midst of Catholics, to be seated, and then said, "I am Augustine!" so that naturally, by assuming the role of Augustine as if he were present, he might pardon Pelagius more freely from the authority of the very one who was being injured and restrain the passions of those feeling aggrieved. [...]
 
Here follows the doctrinal discussion, especially on the teachings of Pelagius that "a person could be without sin and could easily observe God’s commandments if he so wished." Bishop Johns tries to turn the assembly into a formal trial in which he could act as a judge in order to pass a judgment favourable to Pelagius. Orosius opposes this and declares that the doctrine upheld by Pelagius has already been condemned by the bishops (it is an allusion to the condemnation of Caelestius in Carthage in 411). Presbyters cannot contest the decision of their "fathers", i.e. the bishops.
 
6. [Bishop John] debated this for a considerable time and when, because of the inexperience of an interpreter unknown to us - an interpreter whom such leading citizens and devout individuals as the presbyters Passerius and Avitus, and Domnus, a former notable, had proven time and again either to be giving an erroneous translation or to be withholding much of what was being said or suggesting different implications for various statements made - and when, as I said, because of this our statements had been either altered on most occasions or passed over in silence, Bishop John said: “If Pelagius were to say that a person could do this without God's assistance, then that would be most wicked and deserving of condemnation; now, however, when he adds that a person can be without sin, but not without God's assistance, what do you say to that? Or do you perhaps deny God's assistance?” In answer to this, I replied, "As you and the previously named men have witnessed and are even now testifying to, a person who denies God's assistance should be anathematized. Certainly I do not deny this, especially since, on the contrary, I have refuted the heretics." Then, once this "judge" had been exposed and the interpreter betrayed, when we shouted that the heretic was a Latin-speaking individual, that we were Latin-speaking, that the heresy was more widely known to the Latin-speaking parts of the Empire and ought to be discussed by Latin-speaking judges, and when that one person in particular [Pelagius], the very suspect, kept forcing himself upon us as judge in an all but shameless manner—although we were not the accusers—it was necessary for most of us to say, “The same person cannot be heretic, advocate, and judge." [...]
 
Forty-seven days later Orosius approaches Bishop John and unexpectedly is accused by him of saying on the assembly described above that "a person can be without sin even with God's assistance." Orosius reproaches John for delivering such a judgment although he did not understand Latin (see [975]).
 
7. [...] And then there is the fact that in that same assembly the presbyters Avitus and Vitalis sat together with me on one side; on the other side sat that "unknown" interpreter; and next to him were men esteemed by both the world and God, Passerius the presbyter and Domnus, the former notable. Both of these last two were considered worthy to be present as interpreters because of their skill and their faith, and met with us after being invited and brought there by your circle of clerics with the agreement of Bishop John himself. Indeed, in your midst was the very one who in that situation was not less heard than seen.
 
(trans. Hanson 1999: 119, 121-123, slightly changed)
 

Place of event:

Region
  • East
  • Latin North Africa
City
  • Jerusalem
  • Bethlehem

About the source:

Author: Orosius
Title: Liber apologeticus, Book in defense against the Pelagians
Origin: Jerusalem (East)Bethlehem (East),
Denomination: Catholic/Nicene/Chalcedonian
Orosius was born most probably in Spain (maybe in Braga) and was ordained presbyter some time before AD 415 (Augustine calls him compresbyter in his letter 166 [604]). He left Spain at the beginning of the fifth century, probably because of the barbarian invasions, and arrived in North Africa where he met Augustine of Hippo. Then he travelled to the Holy Land where he obtained the relics of St Stephen see [402] and [1341]. In Jerusalem in July 415 he took part in a conference organised by Bishop John on Pelagius and his teachings. Orosius and the other Latin visitors were strongly opposed to Pelagius, whereas Bishop John supported him. The conference ended inconclusively, but in the autumn John accused Orosius of blasphemy, saying that he had claimed that a person cannot live without sin even with God`s help. As a consequence, Orosius composed the Liber apologeticus in which he refuted John`s accusations and attacked Pelagius. Nevertheless the council in Diospolis in 415 declared Pelagius innocent of heresy. (Hanson 1999: 100–104).
Edition:
K. Zangemaister, Orosius, Liber apologeticus, Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum 5, Vienna 1882, ss. 603-664
 
Translation:
C.L. Hanson trans., Orosius, Book in defence against the Pelagians, in: Iberian Fathers, v. 3, Washington 1999, pp. 115-167

Categories:

Languages used - Greek
Described by a title - Presbyter/πρεσβύτερος
Described by a title - Clericus
    Ecclesiastical administration - Participation in councils and ecclesiastical courts
    Relation with - Another presbyter
    Relation with - Bishop/Monastic superior
    Education - Special skills
    Please quote this record referring to its author, database name, number, and, if possible, stable URL: M. Szada, Presbyters in the Late Antique West, ER966, http://presbytersproject.ihuw.pl/index.php?id=6&SourceID=966